Curse

kareel · Aug 16, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I think the worst part of this change isn't what A-net did, so much as what the players are doing, which is to say bot-camping the store to buy it completely out of superior runes, thus making the botters the only available rune-sale source.

Of course, this makes things no worse than they were before we had the trader at all.

Dargull · Aug 17, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

You go on thinking that, just don't come whining here when you're dissapointed- Anet said what this game was at the start, if you don't believe them, that's you're problem, it's not your place to change the entire direction of the game. You knew what the game was when you bought it, or should have known if you bothered to check it out at all, and just because the game remains what it said it would be, you have no place to complain. There is no advantage for those who have played longer, there never was supposed to be. Why else do you think you can make a PvP character already maxed out at lvl 20? The game is what it is, don't whine because it does exactly what the devs said it would do. You won't find what you're looking for here. If you want to lord over people the fact that you have no life and are willing to waste all your time on a computer game, you are going to have to go somewhere else, it's not going to happen here.

Amen.

Drakron · Aug 17, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

I think its time to understand that in a RPG there is a wealth=gear=level relation.

Problem is that any shoot at that is destroyed by ArenaNet rule and economy implementation ... why you think PvP players complain about Forge runners that inbalance Ascalon arena?

This game have huge issues related with things that dont see connected, instant transport and storage makes equipment runs possible.

Player base economy is THE WORST IDEA when it comes to create a economy in a RPG, players that come early benifict of the prices and will drive the prices up for their own gain screwing everyone that comes after then and "farming" is not a solution for that, it creates a snowball effect were the people that farm to afford the high prices will drive the prices higher so the next players will have to farm even more.

This is a RPG, its not a economy simulator ... if ArenaNet wishes to create one they sould make it but dont put any RPG mechanics on it, the players goals of driving a economy and of "fighting evil with swords and magic" are completly diferent.

As some said, this does not look like a fix but ArenaNet being the usual self and trying to hold on to a idea that again and again proven to not being fair to the players and not working, this is being stubborn for the heck it.

And not give me "this is a free market", its not ... its a virtual market and a market to help players to complete the game and craft a character.

Ashika · Aug 17, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

I think its time to understand that in a RPG there is a wealth=gear=level relation.

Anet does not want this to be about wealth and items. That's why it is a skill-based game and why they have implemented certain changes to ensure that idea holds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

As some said, this does not look like a fix but ArenaNet being the usual self and trying to hold on to a idea that again and again proven to not being fair to the players and not working, this is being stubborn for the heck it.

No, it is a fix. As per Anet, new players are not supposed to be significantly worse off than the long-time player. This is why sup rune prices have been lowered. This is likely why collectors offer the best items in the game (my logic is that they don't want you to grind for hours to afford the best items, so collectors are there to provide the best for only an hour max of farming...if you use your skills wisely, it should only take a few minutes).

So I disagree. I think this latest patch is a fix. It is intended to bring the focus back to skills and to hold to the "low-grind" that they promised. Monk runes aside, it seems to be working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

And not give me "this is a free market", its not ... its a virtual market and a market to help players to complete the game and craft a character.

Hehe it is a game, ergo everything in it is your so-called "virtual xxxxx" but it's still a free-market based on that good old supply and demand (tho it's now been heavily modified lol).

I do believe that these changes have taken a little more fun out of the game for those of us who have finished the missions and enjoy farming. Luckily I am at the point where I wanted to try two new toons, but once I pass the game on those two, I'll be left with little to do PvE-wise. It's nice that you don't have to farm to compete, but is it impossible to make farming enjoyable at the same time?

Termil · Aug 17, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

I started playing Guild Wars a couple of weeks ago and I play every day. Love the game. As a new player I have found that some players who have started earlier and have higher level characters and therefore better financical resources have made the game much more difficult for those "losers" like me who didn't start on day one. Buy a large quatity low, extort (oops "sell") high. Exactly how is a level 6 -9 in Old Acalon or Piken supposed to accumulate 3K plus ( still saw an item last night for over 90K) to buy one rune or crafting materials. The fix has made this a much more enjoyable game for me because I can now play as it was intended with many of the same benefits and disadvantages as "original" players had when the game came out. I ignored the WTS silver dye for 3K and WTS minor rune of vigor for 5K before. At least now I can still ignore you and get that minor rune of vigor to help me survive without submitting to being extorted.

As far as the real market, there is a reason why monopolys are illegal and services like phones were required to break up the monopolys. Yes junior, phone service used to be a monopoly as did many other utilities and the prices and attitudes of those in control were not fair to consumers. They whined like the enterprising players here have and predscted world doom if they weren't allowed to run their empires but, hey, the world didn't end and this game will not crumble without players who jack up the prices cause they can.

Ashika · Aug 17, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

^

More proof that this "fix" really was a fix. I repeat this because I'm shocked that Anet actually did something right with the economy for once. I refuse to hope for a better economy tho. At least it's not AS bad

Red Sonya · Aug 17, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Veyes

I hve just realised : no matter what Arenanet does there would always be a large group of people whining.

Amen to that statement. But, what is interesting here is the ones that are rich are complaining about not being able to get richer or that casual players are getting an easier path to these runes and lower prices. Once again the ole those that "have" wanting those that "have not" to continue to "have not" and have "nothing".

Were it me though I would strip it down even more, put fixed prices on runes and they would always be in stock, let materials and dyes still have flucuations and stop the farming the rune/dye merchants that is still a constant even after the patch.

Material drops come a lot more often than superior runes so I highly doubt anyone would be able to corner or monopolize the market on any particular materials. Players need those superior runes for PVP balance, 15k armor and dye isn't a necessity so if someone cornered or monopolized the ecto or other rare material drops or dyes I and I'm certain many others wouldn't care about that.

I also agree the sell back price for runes should be at least 1/2 or more of what the sell price is. This 25gp buy back for a Major Rune is rather rediculous as well, not even worth more than many minors. I end up selling the armor piece that is worth 100gp or more many times vs attempting to make a rune out of it only to find it's only worth 25gp afterwards.

If you notice the key superior runes are the monk runes (cause of the increase in 105/55 builders), Superior Vigor, Superior Absorption, Superior Fire Magic. This has a imbalancing effect on PVP as well, because players are hording the Superiors needed to be at least equal in character rune upgrades, I would bet it's higher ranked guilds doing this so lower level guilds can't compete. Here I would ask A-Net where does this fit in with your statements of SKILL over "time played"??? You are automatically handicapping the player who can't play a lot of time by allowing Superior Runes to be horded and NPC's want rediculous extreme prices for them still. I don't call 90k a fair price for Superior Absorpsion at all and that is what it was yesterday.

In all fairness to "everyone" I think for a 48 hour period every rare material and rune should be 100gp. You did a reset and only the people that were online at that particular time got any benefit from it, not to mention many probably got rich or are getting rich. SO I think A-Net owes everyone the same advantage for at least 48 hours. That will surely make a lot more people happier than the Ebay botters that you surely made happy because they play 24/7 and I'm sure scoffed up the majority of all those runes and materials. Way to go A-Net, what you claimed to be trying to stop you just opened the side door and let them have free reign for a short period of time and now they are making real life dollars out of it at our expense.

GhostPoet · Aug 17, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I was actually kind of surprised to see this thread...ever since the patch I thought the economy has been fantastic. Great prices...not too low, not too high. I've been really pleased with it.

I don't think the entire economy should be changed to appease people who farm. When did this become Farm Wars?

Ashika · Aug 17, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostPoet

I don't think the entire economy should be changed to appease people who farm. When did this become Farm Wars?

LOL I love it!
Yeah, I've said it before that I'm a wealthy farmer, but I lmao'd at the OP. I'll be a millionaire eventually, but unlike Jenny from the block, I remember what it's like coming out of pre-sear with 3k in your pocket and not knowing the value of anything (we did not have traders back then. We also had to walk to ascalon in the snow, uphill, both ways!). Maybe that's why I head to ascalon now and then to give advice and hand out free-bees.

This is one Anet fix where the whiners are a tiny minority (except perhaps those complaining about Monk runes....oh those nasty monks!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

In all fairness to "everyone" I think for a 48 hour period every rare material and rune should be 100gp.

Ahh, no. If you really wanted to do this, a better method would be to allow everyone to purchase a set quantity of goods at 100g each. Still, that's a very short-sighted fix which would lead to larger problems. In this case, you would significantly devalue gold and everyone would be running around with FoW armor. Next would be the exodus of players because all the PvE challenges have been conquered.

Anywayz, I think the best idea at this point is to give the economy some time to settle. I've been dreaming of reasonable buy-back prices, and it would be a very good idea to implement changes there, but that aside, the economy isn't half-bad. So it's time to get back to creating that new build or playing around with a new toon, since this game is about skills, not farming or trading.

P.S. I LOVE the Farm Wars!! There should be an arean for farmers v anti-farmers. I'd bet that the anti-farmers would win since they spend most their time playing with skills. The farmers will look so much cooler when they die tho

Oh right, I'm a farmer...well I still play with skills!!

Drakron · Aug 17, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashika

Anet does not want this to be about wealth and items. That's why it is a skill-based game and why they have implemented certain changes to ensure that idea holds.

Wrong.

They dont expect people to complete the game with starting armor and weapons, they added collectors to make sure player HAVE the ability to upgrade their gear.

Gear plays a key role in this game, that is why weapons are upgraded over areas drops based on area level as so is armor.

If they wanted skill base then armor would have exactly the same rating and weapons would also have a fixed damage range.

Quote:

No, it is a fix. As per Anet, new players are not supposed to be significantly worse off than the long-time player. This is why sup rune prices have been lowered. This is likely why collectors offer the best items in the game (my logic is that they don't want you to grind for hours to afford the best items, so collectors are there to provide the best for only an hour max of farming...if you use your skills wisely, it should only take a few minutes).

Wrong again.

Old players have at least the advantage of knowledge but with instant travel and common storage its a matter of buying the best gear at start, old players can afford to be rushed to forge and buy the best armor in the game for their starting character, they can also use storage to transfer items they find to outfit their characters with maxed damage weapons with a buch of high grade mods that have low requirements and buy all the runes they need.

And you are wrong again with collects since its a question of going to a late game collector with their ascended character and get a max damage weapon to be put in storage.

Quote:

So I disagree. I think this latest patch is a fix. It is intended to bring the focus back to skills and to hold to the "low-grind" that they promised. Monk runes aside, it seems to be working.

This game is not about skill, its about "paper-rock-scissor".

Quote:

Hehe it is a game, ergo everything in it is your so-called "virtual xxxxx" but it's still a free-market based on that good old supply and demand (tho it's now been heavily modified lol).

I would not call "good old" to supply and demand because supply and demand is simply a economical model that can be extreamly unfair in some cases (like monopoly situations, I doubt you would call it "good old" if a company had a monopoly over water and forced people to pay a price well over their means) and have shown again and again its not working in Guild Wars.

Quote:

I do believe that these changes have taken a little more fun out of the game for those of us who have finished the missions and enjoy farming. Luckily I am at the point where I wanted to try two new toons, but once I pass the game on those two, I'll be left with little to do PvE-wise. It's nice that you don't have to farm to compete, but is it impossible to make farming enjoyable at the same time?

Taking the fun of way?

Screwing everyone with exorbitent prices because player drive economy is not based on supply-demand but on "how high can I pawn off this drop"?

Ashika · Aug 17, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Well I'm sorry that, by the tone of your post, you no longer enjoy playing GW. I'm also sorry that you don't know what you are talking about LOL.

First part: You're ridiculous. What you say and what I posted are two different topics. Buddy, allow me to dumb it down as far as I can. The game is about skills, not item collection. There ARE items in the game and you DO upgrade as you progress, but the MAIN FOCUS is on upgrading skills. They want prices for gear set so that a new player does not have to grind for hours to obtain these items. They also have collector armor items to expedite the process! You do not have to be a long-time player to have the means to afford that new armor. I hope you can understand that, as that is about as simple-stupid as I can make it.

Second point: *SIGH* Would you like a badge for Captain Obvious? Of course experience will give the upper-hand, but that's not what we're talking about (tho you clearly display your utter lack of reading comprehension, so I'll keep that in mind). Congratulations for pointing out that low-level arenas are spoiled by fools who think they are good because they use drok armor against ascalon armor. How stupid of you to think that the recent ECONOMY fix was to solve this (are you beginning to see why I hold you in such little standing?). Also, I'll thank you for not thinking me a fool who believes that a player who just seared is on the same level as one who has finished the game. However, 4 of the 6 professions’ main source of damage-dealing comes from skills rather than weapons. Rangers and Warriors will deal good dmg with weapons, tho their skill-set dmg dwarfs weapon dmg. Ergo, while the new player with his non-max dmg weapon will not compare to the max dmg-dealing vet, his lvl 7 fire storm = the vet’s lvl 7 fire storm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

This game is not about skill, its about "paper-rock-scissor".

At this point, I'm beginning to believe your whole post is a joke. However, you do continue, so I am led to believe you are actually being serious. How sad for you.

Fourth Point: Don't talk to me about economics. I understand far more than you can begin to comprehend. Furthermore, you clearly do not understand the use of the phrase “good old.”

Final Point: Find the box that your computer came in, place your computer in it and head to the nearest pawn shop. Then check into some semblance of an educational institution. Boy, yousa needs a edumacasion.

P.S. It's spelled "exorbitant." And that's exactly what Anet fixed.

Ristaron · Aug 17, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

I skipped to the end after reading the first bit of the first post.

I forget who's this is, but I'll use it:

The last economy patch reset the prices, which is GOOD. Now MORE people can afford the farming equipment and everyone can make as much gold as everyone else and all your little farming buddies can go shove it up their asses because they no longer hold monopoly on gold flow. It's people like you who farm day in and day out that made this economy problem in the first place, now that everyone is on equal terms the rising prices will not affect everyone as much. Boo hoo you can't buy a second set of friken fissure armour, what about the people who can't afford a goddamn rune anymore?
I am one of the richer people in my guild, I have had to farm alot so I can distribute gold to any of my guild members who need it. Now that the economy is back to low prices they don't need my help and I can keep my savings for 15k armour - which everyone deserves to get, not just the people who can play 15 hours a day and make insane amounts of money.
Grow up, the game isn't about having the biggest vault, it's about helping your guild and friends and getting a good player. Novelty items are a waste most of the time, a Dragon Sword isn't worth 6k because Prince Rurik uses it, it's worth 500-1200 depending on damage and mods just like any other sword.
A fellblade too, I could pay 1k and go to the UW/Fissure and get a max dmg gold fellblade instead of buying it for 50k.
In fact, I go to my usual farming spot and I get fellblades every so often.

I am so irked by how people like you just don't give a shit about the other players. Don't come near my guild in-game or I'll take your fancy-ass black dye and ram it up your ass so far you'll need a shoe-horn to get it out.

Drakron · Aug 17, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashika

First part: You're ridiculous. What you say and what I posted are two different topics. Buddy, allow me to dumb it down as far as I can. The game is about skills, not item collection. There ARE items in the game and you DO upgrade as you progress, but the MAIN FOCUS is on upgrading skills. They want prices for gear set so that a new player does not have to grind for hours to obtain these items. They also have collector armor items to expedite the process! You do not have to be a long-time player to have the means to afford that new armor. I hope you can understand that, as that is about as simple-stupid as I can make it.

First part: You are wrong.

Skills depends on classes, warriors require gear far more that skills as elementarists require skills far more that gear.

Skills in the game are the equivalent of D&D feats and spells, each class funtions diferently, warriors require to some degree runes of absortion since they are going to be in the frontlines (thats why its a warrior rune).

There is always be a relation of gear=loot=level in RPGs that are level based and this game is no diferent, if it lacked levels and items were basic the same then we could say that it was skill based but since there are levels and many diferences of armor rating and weapon damage ...

Also there is no such thing as "updgrading skills", we get new skills but they dont "upgrade" existing ones or replace then, there is nothing that "upgrades" winter.

Quote:

Second point: *SIGH* Would you like a badge for Captain Obvious? Of course experience will give the upper-hand, but that's not what we're talking about (tho you clearly display your utter lack of reading comprehension, so I'll keep that in mind). Congratulations for pointing out that low-level arenas are spoiled by fools who think they are good because they use drok armor against ascalon armor. How stupid of you to think that the recent ECONOMY fix was to solve this (are you beginning to see why I hold you in such little standing?). Also, I'll thank you for not thinking me a fool who believes that a player who just seared is on the same level as one who has finished the game. However, 4 of the 6 professions’ main source of damage-dealing comes from skills rather than weapons. Rangers and Warriors will deal good dmg with weapons, tho their skill-set dmg dwarfs weapon dmg. Ergo, while the new player with his non-max dmg weapon will not compare to the max dmg-dealing vet, his lvl 7 fire storm = the vet’s lvl 7 fire storm.

My point is there are several flaws in the game, the economy is one.

The problem with weapon and armor runs is caused by instant travel, I could add skill runs are also a problem (since its clear you prefere the spellcasting classes).

Also dont compare spells to weapons, they are diferent things.

And as I am at it, I like to point out max damage weapons many times will have a minimun damage that is other weapons maximun damage.

As for spells ... how about 20% faster casting time and +12 energy from focus items?

Even if that is unlikely to happen (since such items usually have high attribute requirements) they will still have access to items that dont show up until later in the game that even if they are not capable we are still looking at +8 energy and 13% faster casting time against what?

+5 energy and 5% faster casting time?

And dont bring firestorm here, it have little to do with weapons (its a skill) but it does with runes, a older player can simply pop up a superior fire rune and a superior vigor rune and have a more powerful firestorm since he can afford it.

Quote:

At this point, I'm beginning to believe your whole post is a joke. However, you do continue, so I am led to believe you are actually being serious. How sad for you.

Quote:

Fourth Point: Don't talk to me about economics. I understand far more than you can begin to comprehend. Furthermore, you clearly do not understand the use of the phrase “good old.”

Oh thats why you fail to demonstrate why Guild Wars system is a good system for all players?

You know what, I understand a lot over internet bullshit since I been online for years and so let me give you a advice, never post what you just did ... you are simply making a claim without doing anything to support such claim, any point you try to make its lost because deep down you are saying is.

"I know more that you so shut up"

Quote:

P.S. It's spelled "exorbitant." And that's exactly what Anet fixed.

Advice nº2

Never correct another person spelling unless that person have corrected another person spelling and made a mistake.

Its just petty.

Ashika · Aug 18, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

I give up. You just don't get lol. Thanks for the good laughs tho

Ashika · Aug 18, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

LOL

I was actually going to take the time to write a full response because I really did feel it was necessary to prove to you how wrong you are. But then I realized that you'd never understand it in the end. Lastly, I like how you state I am wrong but fail to prove it, while later on you unknowingly prove that I am right. So lovely. I love shutting down fools!

So back to the topic at hand. This economy fix is a good one. It was implemented incredibly poorly, but then Anet has never really done anything well with the economy, so I'll let that slide. Listening to the filthy rich complain that they aren't going to be even more fabulously wealthy is pure comedy.

It's time to close this petition...unless everyone wants to hear Drakron go on another ridiculous rant...cuz I kinda do